Category: Let's talk
many of you are probably familiar with the "spread the word to end the word" campaign against the word retarded. Well, I invite everyone here to join me in a similar campaign to prevent the word "Midget" a highly offensive and derogatory word to little people just as retarded is to people with intelectual disabilities. You can learn more about it and take the pledge. also don't forget to share it with your friends. the link is:
http://www.the-m-word.net
oh, please. this is ridiculous. what fucking word are people gonna try to boot out of the world next?
actually, now that I think about it, I'll probably get flack for saying fuck and being the unladylike woman that I am. lol.
What's so offensive about using the word midget? I have never heard of someone being offended by being called a midget. Making fun of someone slow and calling them a retard isn't the same thing at all.
I can solve this entire problem very easily. You don't want people getting offended by being called midgets, tell them to stop getting offended. No one can offend you that you don't choose to get offended by.
I agree with that.
I also thought it was a term to define persons under 4 feet 9 inches tall, not used as a mean term. Just like people over 5 foot 7 are called tall?
Don't call me tall!
We have an intelligent clientele here I see. LOL Let's try to understand why the word offends these people and then choose to throw stones (or not) after the fact.
The immediacy with which disdain is thrown around sort of disgusts me.
I personally do not find the word midget all that offensive, but unlike some of you, I've met a few people who do.
Also, unlike some of you, I understand that the word "retarded", in a literal sense, means slowed down, hampered, otherwise impeded...to wit, fire-retardant material. To go around slinging that word about may not be exactly nice, but nor do I feel it's exactly horrible. I avoid it for the same reason I wouldn't say fuck around my grandmother. Courtesy. Sure, you may be able by and large to choose what does or does not offend you or, at the very least, what you do about it, but that is not automatic license for someone else to come and slather you with whatever it is.
Short answer:
I don't really think the word needs to be banned or outlawed. I don't think any word really needs to be banned or outlawed. I do think people need to stop being derogatory toward one another about stuff, however. I mean, if you grew up as a black person and you were constantly ridiculed and called a nigger while it was happening, you'd have a lot of trouble not being upset by being called a nigger, I bet. In any case, the problem isn't the word but the association. By and large, words are just words. Be courteous to other people, expect the same of them, and let it go.
Again, we can't compare the two. Calling a black person the n word is at a higher level of racism. Making fun of someone because they are short is like making fun of a blond, I've only seen it done as a means of poking fun at someone. I've never seen someone hate short people. People make fun of me because of being a blond and my big annoying nose but it's not offensive, though it has gotten old and I've heard many of the jokes over and over again now. If you can't handle the fire, stay out of the kitchen because this fire won't go out. Trust me, it's not a battle worth going after.
right on, to Ryan's last post.
Well, I don't think it is nice to make fun of anyone for anything, but yes, you'll need a thick skin.
I'd say, if you are around people that are offending you for any reason at all, you need to change your group, because these people don't give a damn.
Words are just that words.
What one person thinks is bad might be regular to another.
Fuck wasn't always fuck, if you understand what I'm saying.
Calling someone a nigger as an insult is no different than calling them a philistine as an insult. One no one cares about, but the intent is the same behind each. The difference is what we choose to get offended at. So when I tell you to shut up and stop being a baby whose hurt by words, don't get offended, its your choice.
you can't be offended by what you are, being called blond or tall is fine because you probably are blind or tall. On the other hand, "Nigger" is a word used by slave owners because they didn't want to give their slaves a name, and retarded as someone said means slow and impeeded. similarly, midget means either circus freak or a small fruit fly which people of short stature are neither. The aim isn't necessarily to "Ban" the word, that's impossible. The word retarded was never banned but there has been so much education on the subject that it's not thrown around so freely without harsh intent. That is the point. Those who want to go around saying what words they please will do so but those who don't want to unknowingly be rude will actually take in and comprehend the information.
To the original poster, you do seem to be trying to ban words, as your post speaks of "ending the word retarded," and, "preventing the word midget." But in your last post, you finally seem to realize that you can't ban or prevent words. Chelsea said it best. What word will they try to, "prevent," next?
Exactly. You can't even use the words faggot, queer or gay without people immediatel assuming you're talking about a omosexual. A faggot is a piece of kindling or sometimes a cigarette. Gay means happy or celebratory and queer means strange. Yyet now we can't even use those words without people assuming we're talking homosexuality.
Well, technically in the case of faggot, the original meaning was a tongue and cheek reference to the punishment of burning homosexuals. That's why its a derogatory term for them.
I agree with poster 2. This is just retarted. Oops, you can't say that today. Give me a break!
Midgets, faggots, niggers, retards, blinks, gimps, chinks, wops, honkies, oughta be a damn law agin 'em! And you know what else? They took our jobs!
I was corrected about the term for little people close to 8 years ago now. So for those who get really upset about the rquest to do differently, how many of you like your cane being called a stick? Well I personally call mine a stick and don't get bothered, but the hypocrisy is I see some on here who say don't get offended then turn around and get offended at the word stick or blink or some other blind related term like visually impaired or something.
to me words are turds and we all make 'em, but if you really want to jump on short people about that then don't get offended at the things people say about you because you're blind. Because, after al, just like you they also say they didn't mean anything.
I am not a supporter of bans of any kind and not really a politically correct type, but it's pretty ironic to see a bunch jump all over this one while complaining and getting offended themselves at terms about us as blind people.
The one I see who is an exception to this is Cody: I've never seen him write about being offended at terms. Fair is fair, so if you're gonna say they can't be upset over a word, you can't either, whether that word is handicapable or stick or blink or whatever. And the "Oh, that's different," argument is just self-serving: it's different because it's us and not them. Sorry, not buying it over here.
I'm not personally a supporter of these types of campaigns and the like but nonetheless like someone said it's just courteous and so when the Wife and her friend told me about the little person thing after me saying someone was probably a midget, I've tried to remember that and if someone did tell me I would most probably apologize.
I use the term "retarded" properly. I won't get angry at someone and tell them they're retarded, nor am I apt to dismiss something and call it gay. However, if I was discussing someone who was seriously mentally impaired, I might use the term "mentally retarded" because it's apt.
Way I see it is this. I don't exactly toss the word "midget" around, but if I ever meet a small person who doesn't like it, I will do my best not to upset them for no good reason. My grandmother doesn't like the word "fuck", so I don't say it around her. Same deal.
And before anyone tries the "first words, then thoughts, what's next?" line of attack, bear in mind that I'm a free-thinking adult who just happens to care about the sensitivities of others, but who also knows when to stand his ground.
there's a major difference between not liking words, and trying to ban them altogether, cause a person is sensitive about what said words mean in his or her mind.
there are certain words I don't particularly like being used. however, that doesn't mean I tell people to stop using them.
Shepherdwolf said it best when he said being a freethinking person but who also considers the feelings of others. We needn't do away with our humanity in the pursuit of free thought, just as people who are dogmatic shouldn't do away with their humanity either.
Consideration for the feelings of others, while it gets you a long way, doesn't mean beat around the bush or be a pansy about things either. It seems that being considerate is quite misunderstood, and this is not just by young people. I know some older ones, anti-politically-correct folks who wonder wistfully at why a Mexican national, now a naturalized citizen, might be offended at being told they should all just go back to Mexico.
These are often the same ones who kick and scream if their favorite religious symbol has to share space with another one.
I remember reading something about a guy who tried to have the word "hello" banned because it contains the word hell.
We don't live in a world where everyone is nice and considerate of others. It's the sore truth and it won't ever be that way. There's always going to be that dickhead who wants to work people up. You're just giving that person an easier time if you get angry and throw a fit because they say something that offends you. Don't waste your time trying to make the ass holes change, because all they'll do is laugh at you and demean you even more. If you're better than that, prove it. Likewise, stereotypes and prejudices won't go either and people will always find ways to make fun of other people, and people with the old-school racial stereotypes will pass them on to their kids or other people.
exactly my point, Ryan.
I, personally, don't go out of my way to consider other people's feelings. there's no need to not say something, just cause someone's gonna raise a stink about it for some reason or other, or doesn't like a certain word being said.
it's a given that things I say will undoubtedly offend someone, somehow, somewhere. that's just life.
Ah, Leo, privilege has its privileges, don't it? LOL!
But in all seriousness, I'm not one who spouts all kinds of polysyllabic ambiguities to seem like I'm respectful, but I'm not going to use words I know are considered slurrs either. In all this discussion we've all been ranting and raving over how ridiculous or not the whole kerfuffle is but I don't think anybody's up and splained why little people feel the word midget is not OK. I'm not a little person but my wife is and although she's not offended by the word she's on an e-mail list of dwarfs who are bothered by it and she jokes about the M-word. Here's my understanding of why the word is frowned upon. Seems a long time ago, little people were put on public display to be ridiculed for their short stature and to be otherwise gawked at by people and exploited. Think of circusses and carnival freak shows. I'm sure there's more to it but far as I can tell that's it, it's the legacy of the word. It's probably going to be hard for a lot of people to understand not ever having ben put on public display to be ridiculed, but I suppose some of you hard-nosers would just say it's life and you're to cowboy up and deal nice and quiet. No, political correctness or whatever it's called doesn't work, but neither does banning words. Remember it's not what you say but how you say it so it's tone and context that is the problem and not the word itself. But see, meh, ya can't fix people at the end of the day. Don't like a word? Don't use it but don't get your hopes up that everybody else will follow suit either. Oh, and one more thing, I think all people to one degree or another are hypocrites just because it's human nature to put your own interests first, so it is natural to be picky about how you refer to yourself or how you think others should whilst you nonchalantly dismiss terms that are no big deal because they're not about you.
Thank you, Leo. Thank you thank you thank you so so much for mentioning the consideration thing. No, you don't have to be considerate. I won't even say you should be. But it's okay to be, and it doesn't mean you're a doormat or a sheep or anything else. It just means you happen to think of how others will react to something you say or do, even if you do end up going through with it. And as others have said, there are certainly times when you have to throw tiptoeing out the window and do what you need to do, or say what you need to say. Nothing wrong with being considerate if you want to, though; it is, as Leo said, a wildly misunderstood viewpoint.
As for the topic at hand, I agree with a lot of others here. The context of the word may be derogatory, and it's probably not a nice idea to start calling every little person you see a midget. But banning a word altogether will never work, and besides: the more power you give a word, the more damage those who do use it with intent to harm can do with it. While I don't hold that you can choose to be offended or not by something, you can certainly choose how you handle it. Hell, if I could choose how I feel about things, I'd be happy, carefree, and energetically joyful for the rest of my days. Nothing would ever get me down, make me sad or upset or anything else, because I'd just "choose" not to let it do so. Unfortunately, I at least don't work that way. However, I can sure as hell choose not to freak out if someone calls my cane a stick or calls me a blink. I might not like it, (personally I don't care but anyways) but I can choose not to go nuts and let it ruin my day.
Meglet, laugh at things, it helps. Laugh at everything, and its much easier to be happy. When you start laughing at your problems, they start seeming so much less drastic.
That's what I do when people call me a blink, which no one but myself has ever done, or calls my cane a stick, or calls me a devil worshipper, or any number of other insulting things they try to throw at me. I laugh at them.. Makes me feel so much better. so, the next time someone calls you a midget, laugh at them for their lack of interesting vocabulary words.
Wow, Chelsea said: I, personally, don't go out of my way to consider other people's feelings. there's no need to not say something, just cause someone's gonna raise a stink about it for some reason or other, or doesn't like a certain word being said.
Why doesn't that surprise me coming from this girl? Not caring about anyone but yourself; that's a wonderful attitude to have and the fastest way of losing friends and any remaining respect people may have for you.
I guess I try to find a balance. I don't go out of my way to offend people. I do try to be considerate. But I'm not going to spend all my thoughts on worrying what words I use. If I use a word, like midget, and someone tells me straight out they'd rather I call them a little person, I would oblige. After all, I tell people to call me blind rather than dance around. But it's someone's responsibility to tell me how they wished to be addressed or referred to. I can't read minds, and I'm not going to try to.
Cody, I do often laugh at myself. Once, I got stuck in the middle of a horrible, horrible storm. Thunder, lightning, huge winds, tornado warning in effect, the whole bit. My bus driver had dropped me on some random residential sidewalk for whatever reason instead of the bus stop, and I was so new to the neighbourhood that I blundered around for ages, trying to use my cell phone's GPS, trying to call someone, though it was getting so wet I couldn't use it anymore. I finally was rescued, but laughter was the farthest thing from my mind. Now, however, I can laugh about how crazy I must have looked, soaked, practically crying, hair absolutely everywhere (and I have a lot of it). This woman must have thought I was nuts standing out there in the storm. I can laugh at that and not mind. I can also laugh at people on the bus who ask me why I don't just stay home and why do I bother having a life, anyway? No eyes, no life, apparently. But I don't think you can laugh everything off in your life, no matter how good your sense of humour is. Some things just hurt, plain and simple. One memorable afternoon, my eighty-five-year-old grandmother told me, straight up, that she doesn't see how I could ever get married, and it's a good thing I have a good mom so she can take care of my kids if I have them. Now I realize she's elderly, and from a very different time, but it still hurt, not gonna lie. I've witnessed her say to her friends what a pity it is that I turned out blind, as though I were defective. Basically to her, despite a job, university, a serious boyfriend, the ability to live completely independently, plenty of friends and a small bit of talent, I'm still not really a person. It's...hard to laugh that off. . So yes, it's important to try and dismiss insults for exactly what they are, meaningless drivel that shouldn't bother you, but I understand why it isn't so easy as thinking "this does not bug me, this does not bug me, this does not bug me".
In Chelsea's defense (and do correct me if I'm wrong, Chelsea) I think she more meant that, specifically in the case of speaking her mind, she doesn't go out of her way to be careful of other peoples' sensitivities. I am not sure she meant she never considers anybody else's feelings, ever.
Ramble over.
I'm completely in agreement with Meglet here. There's a lot to be said for laughing things off, but being human means you have very quick and often unexplained reactions to things. If your family disowns you for going against them, tells you that you're a hellbound sinner and you know what their concept of hell is...well, I've known at least one person who went through that, a very tough person, and it was hard to watch, much less live. All the preparation and laughter in the world probably won't spare you pain sometimes. In that sense, I'm agreeing with the idea that it's good to be able to laugh or shrug it off later, but doing so when the wound is still fresh is awfully difficult sometimes. I do not in fact believe we are particularly capable of ignoring the damage done to us by life. We just aren't designed that way.
I can attest to what sw said myself, along with that other person. I don't make it apparent that I was hurt when I went through tough times, because that's what they want and not giving them that sort of satisfaction bothers them. The times I was bullied in school and told how much of a worthless piece of shit was hard to cope with on the bus ride back from school, while at the same time bracing myself for hearing more arguing and abuse at hokme takes a tole on any person who goes through it. I don't care how strong you are. I've thought some about this, and though I still stand firmly by what I said above that there is much worse you can be called, repetetive hammering with the same insult gets old. Being made fun of and called a midget over and over again perhaps gets old, just as after a while I get tired of my brother making fun of me being blind and calling me blindy, then running away like a girl when I go after him. Don't give the person the satisfaction I mentioned, brush it off and walk away the better person. Remember words are words, and you know yourself more than anyone else does.
I will say that while some see sharing their opinion as the height of civility, or the best thing, and see it as being themselves, there is more than one way to do things.
For some of us, being ourselves is being considerate of others. I don't mean following the endless list of rules by the Politically Correct, the Religious or the Etiquette Nazis: I mean genuinely thoughtful, if mistaken at times, about how others feel.
This is why, though I have serious questions about the validity of any religions at all, mainstream or otherwise, I would not steamroll my current relationship over it. It's also why I try and be considerate though in the little person / midget context it sounds more academic than anything else. I have known very short people who did get laughed at, or had people put things up where they could barely not reach them. Their plight is no less valid than some who's blind or disabled in some other way.
I wouldn't outlaw the word gimp either but I've never called someone with CP a gimp or a cripple. Not unless we were joking around and the guy had said something like "Get your blind ass over here man."
Context is everything.
But this idea that people aren't being themselves if they are being considerate is logically fallacious.
I really think it depends how we use words and who we use them with. I won't be going up to a strange short person saying, hello miget. But it also does not mean that if someone I know politely asks me not to call me that I'll do it anyway. Some people can't stand jokes, some people are easally insulted. Don't be around them. Plain and simple!
Meglet, you're right, in saying that what I mean when I say I don't go out of my way to consider people's feelings, is that the more time I devote to thinking about who has a problem with what I say, how I say it, what words I use, that's limiting who I am as a person, and not enabling me to be myself.
I am not on this earth to waste time worrying about whether I'll offend people, plain and simple.
as I've said, I'm comfortable enough in my own skin to know that I offend people, on a frequent basis, by being who I am, saying exactly what I feel, without filters.
although, ironically to most of you, I'm sure, people only seem to take that as me being a bitch online. I don't have that problem offline.
still, that's just the way life works, and let me tell you, my life is much happier, knowing and accepting that fact.
to add onto that, Alicia said it best. it's important to find a balance, which is something I've done quite well.
I follow my version of the golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated. So that's what I do. I wouldn't want people pussyfooting around me and what to call me, so I don't do it to them.
Fair point. When I see people stumble over the whole "visually impaired--excuse me--partially sighted--uh...what doI call...what's the terminology..." Look, the word is blind. So I wouldn't necessarily want everyone around me freaking out about how they might offend me, in any way really, but as others have said, finding that balance is pretty intuitive, or should be anyway.
I wouldn't care if people say I'm blind, or they call my cane a stick or ask me questions about my blindness. But it gets annoying when people are afraid to tell you you're blind or things similar.
This is redicolous. It reminds me of the whole Paula Daen situation recently. She hadn't said the N word for over 30 years, from what I've seen of her interviews. Someone just decided to have fun atempting to ruin her career because of the use of the word so long ago. It's just stupid in my opinion.
Take Care,
Dawnielle
All good points here.
Your last post made me laugh Meglet.
I once had someone call my cane my "special friend/helper". Not kidding. I could have gotten either offended or seriously weirded out, but I chose to laugh uproariously and tell the story to as many fellow "blinks" as I pleased. :)
I call my cane my girlfriend.
If I'm going someplace with a sighted person, I say, "let me get my girlfriend."
One day I was going out with a lady, and she was like, who? hahaha.
She calls my cane my wife.
I'll say whatever the fuck I fucking want to, and if some fucker doesn't like it, fuck them with a rusty razor blade!
Charming. lol
Midgets are cute. Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with being a midget. So what if you can't reach stuff? It's perhaps a good way to initiate conversation with someone who you may like or something. Most of the girls I dated were short, technically all most midgets, and for a lot of them it was because they were short was one of the many traits I liked about them.
I hate political correctness. I never try purposely to offend people, OK almost never, but I think people need to get over themselves and stop being offended by every damn thing.
So come on all you retarded midgets and attack me for not being politically correct.
And I wanna be able to say something's gay without being accused of being a homophobe.
Hey, I also liked to find that balance. However, I don't like having to measure my words so damned carefully. The older I get, the better I feel about calling a spade a spade.
They are not spades, there midgets. Don't forget it!
retarded midgets, at that!
lol!
How dare those big old bad old meanies tell me what I can and can't say. I'll show them. I'll say fuck multiple times in one sentence, which will make me look all edgy and rebellious and stuff, and not like some knuckle-dragging dope who can't string two words together. When I say fuck the fucking fuckers, I mean it in the most charming, articulate and refined sense and I in no way am trying to offend or be crude. Also, I want to call anyone anything I wish and suffer no consequences because I don't think I should. If you can't take it, you're obviously nothing but a pathetic crybaby who just hasn't learned how unfair life is for everyone, except me of course because I'm me after all, not other people. I mean, isn't that what freedom of speech is, to be able to say anything you want to or about anyone you want and not be punished or lose friends or be told to shut up, ever?
shut up,
Okay, it's time to clarify. Now, there is a big difference between freedom of speech and free speech. I don't believe in free speech because free speech would mean I'd start talking and you'd just go "fuck off ahahahahahahahahaha!" That would be rude because you'd be disrupting the flo of conversation. Another example would be yelling "fire" in a crowded theator. That would be stupid and dangerous. Now, freedom of speech means that you have the right to believe what you wanted about a person, place, or thing. You have the right to give your views without retribution as long as you are not beeing a nasty son of a bitch. Lecture over, kids!
And what things do you consider being a nasty sun of a bitch?
Freedom of speech is really the right to be a nasty son of a bitch. That's why we're not allowed to take automatic weapons and empty them into the westboro bpatit funeral protests, even though we may want to. They're nasty sons of bitches who probably deserve it, but they're afforded the right to say those things. Free speech means you can use whatever words you like, or talk about who you like. You can't be jailed for saying something negative about the government for example.
And here I always thought nasty son of a bitchs were people that didn't bath, brush their teeth, and stank!
Guess I learned something new.Their speech was just an opinion, or way of speaking.
Now when they draw guns, I was tought that was a mother fucker, duck and shoot back.
Lol wayne!
I don't necessarily approve of being totally rude and calling people names to their faces. However, when telling my brother that a friend has a retarded sister, I know that the word retarded suddenly is supposed to be out of favor, but I am not going to use the term mentally challenged or whatever is deemed appropriate these days. Also if I tell someone that I know someone who is a midget, I am not making fun of midgets and would not call a person who is a midget that to his or her face if they told me they hated that term. So there is a difference between using language to hurt people and simply refusing to always worry about political correctness.
I'm blind, and I refer to myself as blind. I actually get more offended or pissed off if I meet someone who is trying so hard not to use the word blind in front of me that they are making a fool of themselves.
Becky, you tardo!
No seriously, I agree with what you say.
Bob
Half the time, what's acceptable and what isn't changes all the time. I spent a summer working for CNIB and I had to take a couple of courses while I was there. One module described the proper terminology for blind people as "partially sighted", not "visually impaired". Well, when I was a kid, "visually impaired" was considered perfectly correct. Oh yeah, and it's not "blindness", it's "vision loss". Give me a break. It's the intent that matters, not the specific terminology used.
Well, I'm differently abled, so there.
But I don't have partial vision. I have no vision. None is not part. If you have no cake, you don't have a partial cake. You have no cake.
Case in point in why you should worry more about the accuracy of your words, and not whether people get their thongs all knotted up over them. If you're short enough to legally be a midget, and someone calls you a midget, then they're being accurate. So shut the fuck up and get over it. If you're not short enough to be a midget, and they call you a midget, correct them and let them call you short.
I know, isn't it stupid? I was tempted to talk to my manager about it but decided that there were more important battles to fight.
thank you, Cody. couldn't have said it better myself.
I use the word retarded to describe a retarted person. I won't go up to them and say "hey retard..." That's all I'm getting at. Many of you seem to feel that you should have no restrictions at all. Wow, and to think, people say I'm liberal. Shit.
I guess I always try to strike a dogma-free balance, mixed with a healthy dose of consideration. I also don't stumble around with words for things. Only if told then I will try and remember something but yes it is true the acceptable term changes.
For the record, though, long before the Internet, my mother and similar people had the same fit some of you are having, over why blacks got upset at being referred to as negroes. So it's all well and good to champion the cause of anti-politically-correct, but are you going to start referring to blacks as negros? Negroid is a technical term after all.
I think both extremes of this debate deserve each other.
I guess I always try to strike a dogma-free balance, mixed with a healthy dose of consideration. I also don't stumble around with words for things. Only if told then I will try and remember something but yes it is true the acceptable term changes.
For the record, though, long before the Internet, my mother and similar people had the same fit some of you are having, over why blacks got upset at being referred to as negroes. So it's all well and good to champion the cause of anti-politically-correct, but are you going to start referring to blacks as negros? Negroid is a technical term after all.
I think both extremes of this debate deserve each other.
I am offended Leo. Negro? *sigh* I am a black American! Smile.
Lol I used to hate that my mother referred to my black friends as negros. This is before we had boards online that were telling people that words didn't matter, and then using extreme examples of political correctness as an excuse to be rude and inconsiderate.
Basically I try and use moderately accepted terms until told otherwise by an interested party and then go along with it, because my vested interest is in humane treatment of humans. Some people's seems to be a vested interest in either political correctness, or the antithesis.
Exactly. That is what I am saying! Why be rude for the sake of beeing rude?
no one here is advocating being rude, for the sake of being rude. people are reading into what's being said how they choose, based on their own misguided misconceptions.
the fact I don't feel it's necessary to take people's feelings into consideration, doesn't mean I'm a dick. I treat people exactly how I wanna be treated, which means not pussyfooting around, since I wouldn't want that done with me.
so, if some see that as being extreme, so be it.
Just because people think differently, or don't understand your views or my way of thinking does not make them wrong and us any better people, sorry. I do agree treating people as we expect to be treated.
Margorp's post does not have to be taken as a direct application to what people are advocating on this particular board. I've met plenty of people in life who really do enjoy being as shocking and impolite as they can just because "I can say what I want, god damn it". And just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.
I agree with that. Hurting people feelings when you damn well know you are doing it is not freedom of speech, that is being an asshole. I've got a negro word for it too, but it doesn't apply to black people, it covers all ignorantnesses. Lol
And you can't argue with those people because they'll tell you it's okay for them because they're protected by the constitution. Show me where in the constitution it allows for asshole behavior.
Technically, its in the first amendment. There's no law saying you have to use nice free speech. They have the right to say what they want. You also have the right to not associate with them or counter-protest them.
Perfect example. The westboro Baptists protest military funerals. That's about as dickish as you can possibly be. So, a biker gang decided to go to all their protests and surround them. They literally form a line of bikers that cuts off the westboro Baptists from the funeral so they can't be seen by the mourners. That's the first amendment at work.
Hmmm, let's reverse the question, shall we? Where in the Constitution does it say you can't be an ass hole? No where. Is there a law that forbids people from being ass holes? None that I'm aware of. The world won't ever be as it should. People will not be the way you want them to be. Imagine how boring the world would be if everyone was the same. Imagine if everyone got along. That's all you can do, so stop wishing apon a star that something like this will happen. You'll only keep being dissappointed. You can only control yourself.
I hope someone bombs Westboro, again. On a sunday, when they're all inside.
I never said it was not legal, just assholely.
Now if you enjoy being an asshole, practice your rights, however, don't complain when the shit comes back at you.
I can appreciate that sentiment. What makes me sick, I think they would actually like that. They would love the attention, the maiming, the scarring, even the idea of death, because in their world that makes them right.
If I could punish them, they would not go to hell or any other fetishistic sadistic place: they'd be isolated in a world of neutral grey, no physical sensation, and only white noise to listen to. And with the keen awareness that any memory of their existence had been forever erased from humanity's collective consciousness.
I know people who are serving over there.
But as to the free speech argument, that only applies to governmental interference. So picking on Cody a little bit, sorry Cody, but let's say he goes with his girlfriend like a gentleman, to the abortion clinic, because she feels that is the right choice, and he doesn't want to leave her stranded. On the way a woman with a bucket of cow's blood screams at the poor girl and maybe even sloshes some of that blood around like some hideous ritual from a National Geographic article.
She is free to scream, only in so far as the government cannot interfere. The bloody ritual is another issue subject to new Homeland Security anti-biohazards measures, but she is free to carry on like a banshee. Free from government interference. However, the constitution doesn't protect her from Cody's manly protective instincts rising up telling her to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up, among other things.
Freedom of speech in the Constitution has everything to do with governmental interference, and nothing at all to do with reproof or constraints put on by private parties.
I am pleased to hear about the biker group's response to the Westboro Baptists, and any elementary student of the Constitution would know their response is precisely the type of response the Constitution allows. I imagine the Westboro Baptists have cried freedom of speech on this one, but they're wrong. The Constitution only protects against governmental interference.
So even a site like this one which sensors the so-called n word, is not acting outside of the First Amendment, because they are not the government.
That's too nice.
I think the Westboro cult does what they do mostly for attention, whether they actually believe what they say or not. So I think Leo's solution for them is perfect, no attention from any deity, good or evil, and to be erased from our collective memories so there isn't even a legacy concerning them.
I didn't think about that angle. Pay them no mind and they'll have to stop being assholes.
A man could lose her girlfriend exercising his freedom of speech.
I want to take exception with post 72.
She says, "no one here is advocating being rude, for the sake of being rude. people are reading into what's being said how they choose, based on their own misguided misconceptions.
the fact I don't feel it's necessary to take people's feelings into consideration, doesn't mean I'm a dick. I treat people exactly how I wanna be treated, which means not pussyfooting around, since I wouldn't want that done with me."
so, if some see that as being extreme, so be it."
I'll take you at your word: no pussy footing around.
It sounds like being "outspoken" is a way of life for you, a way of getting attention.
Seems to me it is much better to be honest with yourself and diplomatic with other folks.
lol Bob. thanks for the chuckle, even though I'm sure that wasn't the intent behind your post that quoted me.
no, I'm not outspoken cause it gets me attention. far from it, in fact. that particular trait gets me and has gotten me quite far, not to mention it's one of the reasons I'm so well respected by people.
being diplomatic works sometimes, in life, but not all the time. sometimes, people just need that extra push, and sometimes, that extra push is more harsh than is usually necessary.
for instance, when dealing with insurance companies, you have to talk to them firmly, making it absolutely clear that you know what you need, unless you wanna be given the run around.
Well respected? I personally know people on this thing that are quite sick of the way you attempt to tear people a new one...but that's off topic, I'd say.
The constitution doesn't only cover government interference Leo. Look at the 14th amendment for example. It doesn't say the government can't own slaves, it says everyone can't own slaves.
But either way, lets take your example. I go with my girlfriend, she gets blood thrown on her. The lady would then get arrested for assault. She could not get arrested for protesting, because protesting isn't illegal. Its covered under free speech and freedom of assembly.
margorp, I'm not talking about being well respected here, but in my offline life.
also, the point that's being missed, is that, although I'm respected by many people in the world, my honesty is what earns that respect.
Cody you're right on both counts. Only, even though she would get arrested for assault, she doesn't get any constitutional protection from your response either. That was what I intended to say in perhaps what was a rambling prose. People, using that woman or the Westboro types as an example, tend to think the constitution protects them from any sort of response. They think they have a free passs to get up and say anything they want or act how they want with no reaction except an echo chamber for a response. The Constitution grants her, or the Westboro types, no such thing.
Chelsea, I'm honestly not trying to be rude in saying this, please appreciate that i'm not. Further understand that i'm not trying to take this opportunity to have a dig at you either. that being the case, very few people on here actually respect you for the way you comport yourself. Judging by the comments made here daily in public quick notes made by people from all walks of life, you're almost universally reviled here, not respected.
Somehow you've managed to make a huge majority of this community detest the fact you sign in.... I suppose that by some measure that means your approach is working. Your message is getting out, your voice is being heard, and people know your name... I suppose based on your standard, at least that's something to revel in.
Well said! However, let's not kid ourselves, our words mean nothing to her. Not a blasted thing.
ok... just... wow.
first of all, a midget is a midget. i get called a midget even though i'm not. i'm just short... do i have a problem with what i'm called? no. its just a word.
second... calling someone a midget and calling someone a retard are two completely different things. Or, at least, to me they are. I will say that i'm related to someone who was born without a brain, and someone else who is retarded, so i might be more unwilling to say that word because of that.
but seriously... its just a word. if your offended by it, get over it. you can't stop words... what's said is said, no matter what you do about it. It's not like we can arrest people for saying hi instead of hello, its the same concept.
third... if i say something that offends someone, and they tell me, i won't use that word around them. if something bothered me, i would tell someone to stop, i wouldn't try to have a word banned or anything, its just respect.
Yes...you're spot on with your post.
I agree with Stormwing.
I liked Frozen Teardrop's post.
As to outspoken or confidence, I don't think the two are necessarily hand in hand. And to me, making a virtue out of being blunt is as pointless as those who made a virtue out of the stiff upper lip during Victorian England. It is possible to be gracious without conceding your point or coming off like a sissy or the girl version of a sissy. There are of course times to push, yes, like Chelsea said. However, pushing evry time you speak dulls the impact of one's pushing. Being blunt all the time dulls the impact of being blunt, because it's about the person who is blut at that point, not the actual content of what they're saying.
A popular figure notorious perhaps for being blunt was Dr. Laura Schlesenger, a talk show host who was popular among women at least. And one thing you heard about her was, "That's Doctor Laura," not "Wow, check out what she said," not "Check out how insightful that was." Once I listened to her when I was in the car with the Wife, and aside from the female back and forth situation there, I heard her come out and say in so many words that she made a virtue out of being blunt. And that more often than not people who disagreed with her just didn't like blunt.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I paraphrased wrong. It did however seem to match up with what I'd heard at the office about her. In other words: Disagree with me? That's because you can't take blunt, or can't take direct.
That takes the total wind out of everyone's sails and isn't winning an honest discussion. It's just a trump card like saying "Well, god or goddess told me so, so that's how it is."
In other words, it doesn't engage intelligent conversation. Which may be the desired effect. If what you want is for people to come away with an opinion of your presentation, you have gotten that effect. But if you have thought things through and want to share ideas, perhaps engage people with a new way of looking at something, or fortify someone else's idea, perhaps tailoring the approach to the discussion at hand may help you. Note nobody is saying sit down and shut up. In fact, quite the opposite: we're saying be heard for what you actually have to say, the stuff of which your thoughts are made, rather than just the veneer which is your presentation.
I understand you come from an extreme situation, and you have a reaction that bore this out before you told us this. Extreme situations can lead to extreme responses. They can, but they don't have to.
Hopefully some of this makes sense in a useful fashion.
I hear what you're saying, leo, but as I've said before, it's only here, on the zone, that people see what I present as me being pushy.
if it was a problem in my offline life, where people didn't feel I got my points across effectively, and I was seen in a similar fashion as I am here, I'd be a fool not to make a change.
the zone is just one portion of the world, though, not to mention, one portion of the world who wouldn't take the time to get to know me, based on who they think I am, anyway.
so, given that fact, I see no need to change my tune.
also, critics are everywhere, so if it weren't my bluntness people here didn't like, it'd be my high sex drive, or any number of other things one wants to use as an example.
that sort of attitude is just part of humanity, which I've long ago accepted.
Well Leo, I suppose Cody is not protected by the constitution from a bitch lap, so its even. Smile.
I'm sure that people in real life take issue with you. They're probably just to much of a coward to tell you to your face. If you are the same way online as off line, that wouldn't shock me in the least.
If you didn't care, you wouldn't spend such time in your posts trying to explain yourself, or promote the image you desire to maintain. you'd let your text do more of the talking, IMO.
Having a high sex drive isn't an issue. It's absolutely noone's business, who cares, it's your boddy. If you belittle others for not having your same level of sexuality, that's something one takes major issue with. It's not ladylike, nor manly either. But Lio has a point, in stating that there's a difference of being blunt when needed and being too blunt all the time, because you get nothing across. You just make yourself seem silly. I'm not saying there's any harm in being outspoken, not at all. In other words, don't be nice when you don't have to, but don't expect to have a great impact in the world by rising too high on a pedistal, you'll eventually fall off
This is gonna be really blunt, see what I did there. The one problem people seem to be failing to realize, and I don't blame them because most people on here don't think deeply enough about subjects like this to even notice it, is that simply letting your writing speak for you doesn't work on here. The vast majority of the people who read the posts on these boards do not have the reading comprehension skills for that to be a viable tactic. That's why people like me and Chelsea have to deal with writing the same posts over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, usually to the same person.
For example, on every single board I post to, eventually, someone will come out with the "why don't you be nicer" post. Sometimes its the "why don't you respect other people's opinion" post. Sometimes the, "Why can't we just get along" post. Then, I have to go through and explain that I don't respect opinions because most of the opinions that are spouted off on here are about as well thought out as the guy who tried to jack off with a vacuum cleaner. Every time I have to do this. No one seems to ever realize not to waste their time because I already know what they're going to say, have heard it, and defeated it in other posts too numerous to count. So they should just not speak. But do they? No, they still speak, and I still have to illustrate to them how dimwitted they're being.
I get the same thing with the, "You act like you think most people on here are stupid" post. And then I have to write the whole, "I do in fact think most people here are some degree of stupid" post. It really gets annoying.
So, to say we should just let our writing do the work for us is silly, and doesn't work. Sorry.
Cody, you and Chelsea are by far the worse two people who frequent these boards. I think you are rather sad individuals because you have to go around belittling others if they don't agree with you. I only hope one day you two will grow up; actually, I don't really care what you do so I take that back.
People come here on the boards to have discussions but they are simply dominated by you two thinking that you've got to be right all the time and if not, you think you're absolutely entitled to put others down.
You and Chelsea have to go "over and over and over" things as you say because you both have to get the last word.
I hardly write on the boards because of your attitudes and I'm not the only one. Congratulations; you've ruined it for a lot of people; You being you, I'm sure that makes you guys happy; ah well, that's you.
Chelsea, one last thing, if you treat people offline as bad as I've seen here, I highly doubt you're that highly respected. But then again, as someone else has said on these boards, it's easy to type anything behind a computer screen so maybe you're not really 'a dick" (your words) offline.
And when you respond to me, because of course you would have to do just that, please, both of you don't use your old lines; try something new, better yet, just shut up and try and absorb what more and more of us are trying to tell you.
Congratulations for turning yet another board topic into a drama; typical behaviour from you.
Thank God I don't rely on this place for my entertainment these days.
K that's is; I'm out until we can show some more maturity. :)
See what I mean?
Cody. How dare you constantly insult the intelligence of others. What gives you the audacity? This is the atitude I am talking about; it is time to grow up.
Abandon all hope, Marg me old chum.
I have. And now, back to reality!
How dare you insult the political opinions of others, or whether or not they like chocolate ice cream more than vanilla ice cream, or whether they think the boston bruins are better than the boston red socks, (or white socks, can never keep that one straight). I'm not saying all people on here are stupid, and I will happily give credit where it is due. However, the vast majority of the people on here, and in the world in general for that matter, are entirely lack luster. If you want me to not point it out to you, don't give me anything to point out.
Now lookie here, I'm a devout Pastafarian. Y'all better respect my beliefs in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or I'm gonna cry about it on the rant board and demand more civility.
Hahahahahaha, he worships a fucking package of Ramen, hahahahahaha, fucking nutjob this guy is, holy shit! Was that reverent enough?
And, I have no reason to demand my beliefs be respected because I don't have any. I'm so damn atheist I don't even believe in the Force, and if that ain't outright heresy I don't know what is!
Do you at least believe in migits?
I believe in martians that have eyes in the tops of their heads and they can materialize anywhere and they go yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip.
I married somebody who, for all intents and purposes would be called a midget, although at four feet six she's on the tall side for that spectrum. Plus, she knows others so yes, Peter Pan, midgets do exist.
I prefer the term "hobbit."
That only accounts for the short plump ones. The skinny ones would get all upset maybe.
Ooh, he married Tinker Bell, so believes in fairy tales?
I thought the, um, cut off for a midget, was 4.8?
Now hold on, I always had the impression that Tinkerbell was just a few inches tall, invisible save for maybe a little lantern light, and was mute. I don't think that's my wife. LOL! I'll have to ask her perspective on the word midget, although I know that when she sees people getting uptight over use of the word in the dwarfism communities she's in, she tends to be amused by all the uproar, so perhaps she was never called such. I think the classic midget had a certain body shape and I don't think my wife fits that.
But see, it kind of boils down to this. Political correctness doesn't work. Banning certain words doesn't work. Maybe some kind of social disapproval of the word might as we've seen with "nigger" although people are certainly free to use it. Feel free to accept people will think you're part of some white supremacist cult if you do so though. And also, overusing a word because you want to stick it to the man who's trying to push you around just makes you look like a punk who's trying too hard. Here's what works, least it works for me, and it's quite quaint and old-fashioned but just go with me on this. What about generally trying to play nice with the other folks since we're all stuck on the same planet, huh?
Define nice.
Besides, Tinker Bell only spoke in bell sounds. LOL.
It means don't be an asshole on purpose. LOL!
But then you'd have to define asshole.
Cody, not being an asshole, in these people's minds, likely means not causing havvock by speaking our minds, as you and I do.
Never measured Tinker Bell, but I always assumed she was just child sized, so around 4 feet and something?
She was able to fit in one of these double shashed windowsyou see. When I was small I could go through one easy. Probably why my parents built a house with the wing type, to keep the wondering kids inside at night?
I speak my mind all the time.
Nicely.
I call sort people mig, mig, mig, well, you know, that word.
It seems like, once again, cody and Chelsae want to argue. If we are all as brainliss as the two of you think we are, aren't you bored with us. Perhaps we are just smart enough to give you amusement and so you toy with us. Hmmm.